Property Owners Support Group

[eleanor]

Mallorca has built it's reputation based on the tourist industry. Many who bought first came as a result of a holiday. Isn't it therefore to be expected that a tourist destination will have tourists and those tourists will be staying in apartments or hotels. Living in the middle of a field we are not! With respect isn't it obvious that in any apartment block apartments will not always have just the buyers staying there? Frankly some owners might have family and friends that leave questionable behaviour. I find it a little below the belt for the assumption to be that a renter is a 'undesirable' which is the implication with some posts. Perhaps if there is a need to not be amongst tourists then an apartment in a middle of a field might have been more suitable.

 

[eleanor]

When we bought our first apartment many years ago the agent herself actually did all the legal work! Crazy to think of this now but then it just happened and was accepted as normal. Many agents were also tied into a relationship with certain solicitors too and would push for certain ones to be used. Much money changed hands and what we would call normal professional conduct didn't necessarily take place.As already said many places were sold on the expected rental revenue. I would doubt the legality of renting would be challenged by the purchaser and i'm sure would not have been forth coming by the solicitor. May be a little different now of course but when black money was the norm, why would something as simple as renting an apartment be challenged?

Remember in the height of the market a property could be sold the day in came up for sale! Things moved very quickly. People went along with things which they wouldn't dream of here in the UK. It just wasn't the same. I'm sure many can remember the declared value situation and the notary leaving the room so not to witness bags of cash being handed over! It happened and was accepted! When this behaviour was the norm and so much money being made by so many - including the banks with mortgages then whether a property was or was not legally able to be rented just didn't come in to anything. If the matter came up which I'm sure it didn't then it would have been dismissed probably by the agent or solicitor as something not to worry about. It is easy to say now that the buyer should be aware but we have the knowledge now of experience and as they say hindsight is a wonderful thing!

 

[Papillon]

Rudi

I think it is important not to turn the discussion into a noisy neighbour dispute. There is a thread already running 'Illegal Renting' - The Other Side of the Story, which deals with some off the issues you raise.

One thing for certain is that if the hoteliers get their way the odd barking dog and screaming child will be nothing compared to the devastating impact on the value of your property.

Ghost apartments whose owners cannot afford to pay the mortgage and community charge will remain unoccupied and unsalable and rip the heart out of your silent community.

A friend tried to buy an apartment on the mainland recently at a knock down price as so many were for sale in the block. He applied for a mortgage and was told there was no chance as it was impossible to put a value on the property.

The reality is that we are where we are and no amount of navel-gazing is going to change that; setting neighbour against neighbour, scoring points on who said what to who is just a pointless exercise.

You have a clear choice Rudi, either you support the hoteliers in their bid to crush touristic rentals and destroy the already fragile property market or you support those of us trying to raise awareness of the problem and its possible catastrophic impact on the future prosperity of the town.

This is just a discussion forum that is trying to highlight the concerns of both owners and renters. A compromise solution must be found to end the era of the "grey touristic rental market" and one would hope that with time the Majorca Daily Bulletin may pick up on this thread and give it the wider audience it deserves.

 

[andrew711]

Some observations:

Mark - the Alcudia Mile isn't pretty and it'll be less and less pretty as businesses become more decimated by the impact of AI. But not all AIs are like, say, Bellevue. There are 4-stars, too. Many of Playa de Muro's hotels are 4-star, are far more modern but also offer AI. And if the older hotels were to take advantage of the tourism law drive to upgrade, then they might look prettier, they might get an additional star but would still be AI.

Animagic - discussed with restaurant, bar and shop owners. Finally, yes, in that the associations representing non-hotel trade have now woken up to what is happening and is likely to happen. As a result, there is now something of a co-ordinated business opposition to the government/hoteliers stance.

Papillon - Majorca Daily Bulletin. I have written eight articles about the holiday let issue in the past couple of months alone plus three on all-inclusives, and there is another one coming up about lets. I wouldn't know how many more I have written over the years. Both are subjects which are given a good airing in the paper, but to be honest, the Bulletin is less important than the Spanish papers. If they were to follow less of a hotelier line than they typically have done (and one must ask why they have), then this would have more impact. I notice, though, that there is now a bit of a shift in emphasis.

 

[Belladonna]

Yes, have noticed that too, with a few Mallorcans daring to raise their heads above the parapet and voice a logical opinion thank goodness! There are so many long term and far reaching problems that would be associated with this idea that would be affecting so many locals that it really doesn't bear thinking about.

This should not be just about a witch hunt against unwitting owners, but also effort to keep the locals of the island employed surely?

 

[Belladonna]

Can I also post a link to a previous topic on this subject started last year which gives a little extra information.

http://www.forum.puertopollensa.com/living-working-pollensa-area/9198-licensing-laws-buying-pp.html

 

[Papillon]

Have followed your posts avidly Andrew, maybe we should have an "Andrew 711" sticky with some of your many valuable insights.

 

[Sparky]

Andrew's post on his blog today is very good, it's title is "The Matrix Of Tourism Totalitarianism" and here is the link :- alcudiapollensa.

 

[Papillon]

Surely you can't be right Andrew (my bold)

Section I – Autonomous Community of the Balearic Islands

1.- General provisions
PRESIDENCY OF THE BALEARIC ISLANDS
No. 14884
Law 8/2012 on Tourism in the Balearic Islands, dated the 19th of July
THE PRESIDENT OF THE BALEARIC ISLANDS


Tourism is the activity that generates the greatest repercussions, in terms of revenue, employment and activity, on the Balearic Islands. It is also unquestionably the leading resource on these islands, and must therefore be in constant transformation, innovation and development.
Heavy international competition in an economic setting marked by globalisation, which includes tourism, as well as the new technologies and the social networks applied to productive activities, and specifically to tourism, requires much more attention to be paid to the concept of a much more demanding tourist, one that is more independent when planning his or her trips and more interested in seeking enriching experiences. For this reason, formulas should be made possible that develop the opportunities that the tourism resources on the Balearic Islands can offer to the utmost.
In this scenario, it is crucial to provide incentives for the development of innovative, creative, competitive, modern, flexible and sustainable models which make investment in the tourism industry attractive, as this investment is so necessary for the reconversion of a model which has become obsolete and which in turn spurs the economy on the Balearic Islands.
Upon this groundwork, it is crucial to rise to challenges with a high-minded, long-term perspective, and with a culture based on the recognition of sustainable development, innovation, quality, creativity and responsibility.
This law aims to address the problem of seasonality by focusing on quality, innovation and research, taking advantage of the assets of a unique range of tourist products and bringing into the fold new operating formulas in which creativity, quality and excellence in service mark the difference compared to other tourism destinations, gaining back recognition for the Balearic Islands as a benchmark tourism destination internationally.
Likewise, this law also focuses on cooperation among the different administrations in the autonomous community of the Balearic Islands, as well as with the most representative stakeholders in the sector, in order to allow a regulatory framework which makes it possible to reconvert the Balearic Islands’ tourism industry.
Without the shadow of a doubt, one of the cornerstones of this law is land planning, the fostering and encouragement of tourism, through planning, training, constant innovation and investment in the reconversion and rehabilitation of saturated or mature tourist zones. For this reason, it imposes ongoing modernisation and quality controls.

But then of course you are as article 52 goes on to destroy these aspirations.

Article 52
Typology of homes where tourist stays may be commercialised
1. The homes to be used for tourist stays must fall within the typology of freestanding or attached single-family home.
For the purposes of this law, freestanding single-family home is understood to mean a home where only one home is permitted per plot of land. However, after submitting the corresponding proceeding, other circumstances may be accepted in which there is more than one home per plot of land, as long as similar circumstances obtain. For the purposes of this law, single-family attached homes refers to homes located on the same plot of land subjected to the horizontal property system or when attached single-family homes exist in different plots of land connected by a partition wall separating them.
2. Under no circumstances shall homes found in multi-family or attached buildings subjected to the horizontal property system be considered independent freestanding homes, and as a result tourist stays are forbidden in this kind of home.
3. The freestanding or attached single-family homes in which tourist stays may be commercialised must have at most six bedrooms and at most 12 places.
4. To commercialise tourist stays, there must be at least one bathroom for every three places, and in other features the homes must abide by the urban planning parameters applicable to them.
5. Tourist stays may not be commercialised in homes that have not submitted the statement of responsibility upon the start of a tourist activity to the competent administration.
Regulations may be established that require homes that are commercialised for tourist purposes to be subjected to quality plans, and their periods and effects must be determined.

Once again Andrew thanks for your valuable contribution to the on going discussion.

 

[eleanor]

It was bound to happen wasn't it! can I just give a warning that there are companies and individuals popping up claiming to be able to sort out obtaining a licence. Money is upfront and you've guessed - never to be found or heard of again!

 

[Sparky]

It was bound to happen wasn't it! can I just give a warning that there are companies and individuals popping up claiming to be able to sort out obtaining a licence. Money is upfront and you've guessed - never to be found or heard of again!

Eleanor can i ask how are these people doing this, are they "cold" calling at properties, by phone or email?.

 

[eleanor]

Eleanor can i ask how are these people doing this, are they "cold" calling at properties, by phone or email?.

Sparky it was a friend of mine who owns a town house. He was under the impression that he would be able to obtain a licence and spent time himself contacting various people and being passed on to other people. He made the contact I believe and supplied information and money only for the number to be unobtainable and their money lost.

I'm afraid I know little more about it only that it should be a warning.

 

[Sparky]

Sparky it was a friend of mine who owns a town house. He was under the impression that he would be able to obtain a licence and spent time himself contacting various people and being passed on to other people. He made the contact I believe and supplied information and money only for the number to be unobtainable and their money lost.

I'm afraid I know little more about it only that it should be a warning.

Thanks for the reply Eleanor, as has been stated before it is impossible to get a license for an apartment. So all owners need to ignore anyone who says they can obtain one for them and obviously never hand over any money.
It makes my blood boil that there are people who will always take advantage of others misfortunes and problems, talk about kicking someone when they are down .

 

[eleanor]

Too true! It makes you so angry doesn't it! I think there are many people who just don't want to believe what is happening and are talked into these cons because they perhaps feel in a vulnerable situation. Just not good'

 

[Sparky]

Thankfully through this forum we are able to warn owners, whether they are members/owners or not they can click on to pp.com and read what is actually happening.
But as i have said before, lets hope that the powers that be realise the damage they are doing to tourism in Mallorca and reverse their decisions.........quickly before it's too late .

 

[Sparky]

Interesting read in the UH, Google translation here :- El 42,7% de los turistas que llegan a las Islas se alojan en 62.157 apartamentos no legalizados » Local » Noticias » Ultima Hora Mallorca.

The 42.7% of the tourists who come to the islands 62,157 are housed in apartments not legalized
The employer asks the Government Aptur regularization, he will allow to raise more CAIB and increase legal certainty
The controversy raised by the amendment of the Law of Urban Leases (LAU) in June of this year, and regulations prevailing in the Islands Tourist Act 2012, which prevents the marketing and Rental in apartment blocks, is is paying off with a frontal opposition by the entire tourism sector, except for the hotel to this regulation, since according to a study by the employers of Apartments and Housing Housing tourist use in Balears (Apturbaleares), 42, 7% of the overnight stays in the islands are made holiday establishments are not legalized.
The president of this association, Juan Estarellas, says that with the current regulations "there is no room for maneuver, so the only solution possible, given the volume of tourists who stay in this offering (see graph below) that is now illegal, is regularize ".
Statistical study
The report prepared by Apturbaleares concludes that the only way is to regulate, "since not only allow for a more comprehensive data collection in the face of statistical studies on tourism in Balears, but would allow additional revenue collection and give the CAIB also legal cover to all professionals who currently operate outside the legal framework. "
The study shows that the number of overnight stays in non-regularized is 42.70%, while 56.27% is made in the formal offer, mainly hotels.
In the chart below you can see that, according to these percentages, of the 96.3 million tourist nights in the Balearics were performed over 2012, 41.1 million were made in non-legalized and 55.2 million in the offer regularized by the Ministry of Tourism.
According to overnight stays in non legalized now by the Tourism Act and the number of air travelers who came to Islands last year, 16,292,479 (source CAIB), Apturbaleares concludes that the number of housing for this activity in is 62,157 Islands.
"To date no actual statistics to quantify this offer, hence this document brings to the table data that are used to analyze the existing impact, so that urgent decisions to avoid legal proceedings will end up in court . It is illogical that there is no regularization, a circumstance that has occurred can in Catalonia and Valencia, and all this happens, consequently, by a modification of the General Tourist "aims Estarellas.

 

[Sparky]

Sorry I meant to add that there are a lot of "readers comments" at the end of the article and many of them are as unhappy as most of the people posting on here.

 

[Papillon]

Thanks Sparky, probably the most encouraging article I have read so far. It seems that there is now a certain sense of urgency to resolve the impasse as quickly as possible.

 

[joey36]

Has anyone been charged with breaking this new law yet? If so what was their punishment?

 

[Mark]

where the figures made up by the hoteliers

Think how much tax could be collected if most of that was made legal (where buildings are appropriate for rental of course)